Monday, May 21, 2007

I Have Uncovered A Great Lie Being Told About The Vietnam War Era

A month ago I found the following blog posting on the Internet, but I have not had the chance to really get into doing something about it till today. I did leave a comment on the blog that the following blog post appears on, but that is not enough. I want to know how far, how wide and how deep these following lies go. And I intent to do my best to stop them from gaining anymore believers or spreading any further in the future.

http://conservativechris.blogspot.com/2007/03/60-are-over-hippies.html
Sunday, March 18, 2007

The 60's are over, hippies!
A source of endless amusement and to a certain degree, bewilderment is the effect that the 60's war movement has had on people. It's not enough that baby-boomers still have that insane "free love, maaaan" attitude but they also can't let go of the idea that people really care about protesters.
Every weekend there are protests against the war or something else, but usually against the war. In the 60's, people were caught off guard by these sorts of protests and it actually did have an effect in turning public opinion. But why? It certainly wasn't because of a predominant belief that the Vietnam war was wrong. Contrary to liberal propaganda over the past 40 years, the Vietnam war was supported by most Americans and troops. It is the revisionist history that is written by liberal hollywood that thinks it was highly unpopular.
No, the reason why it worked is because it propogated a lie and that lie is that demonstrators represent large numbers of people. We know now that it isn't the case.
The truth is that protests and demonstrations represent only one group of people: The unemployed. Those of us who have jobs and lives can't demonstrate. We're too busy feeding our families. The typical American knows this and also knows that volume doesn't make a majority.
The moral of the story is this: Don't let the loudmouths and the MSM define your opinions. Hippie protesters are the opposite of mainstream. They are the fringe and the worthless members of the underground society whose only value is entertainment. Don't let them dissuade you from the good fight.

My comment on that blog posting:

From where did you obtain the bogus info that is written in your blog, which declares that during the Vietnam War most members of the US military and most citizens of the USA supported that war?

Did you just make it all up on your own?

Either way, you're a mighty fine writer of dangerous propaganda.

I was in the Army during 1969-71. I never saw any support for the Vietnam War amongst any troops whom I served with in basic training, in Army photographer school, or on Okinawa.

In basic training, while we were running laps, when the Drill Sergeants wanted us to sing, “I wanna go to Vietnam, I wanna kill some Charlie Cong”, that went on for 2-3 verses then it gradually changed, one or two trainees at a time, to, “I don’t wanna go to Vietnam, I don’t wanna kill no Charlie Cong.” And I’d be worried at first and watching the DI who was leading us in our run for signs of oncoming anger and orders to run faster and longer, but he never did a thing about it—and most of my DIs were Nam Vets.

No one in my basic training company volunteered to go to Vietnam. In fact, they mostly did anything that they could do to get out of going to Nam. There were guys who had tried to get into the Army Reserves or the National Guard so that they would not have to go to Nam; but where they came from the local Army recruiters all had long waiting lists of guys who had already signed up for upcoming openings in the Reserves or Guard. If a soldier signed up for three years of active duty, one year longer than required by the draft, then he could choose and be guaranteed an overseas duty station. At the time, the Army could only make a soldier do one tour overseas per three-year enlistment. When I entered basic, there were also long waiting lists in recruiters’ files of guys who had signed up for Germany and other overseas posts so that they could not be sent to Nam. I knew all of this info as I was entering the service but decided to take my chances and go where they sent me.

I challenge you to prove me wrong on the above information by locating historical records to the contrary.

When I arrived at photo school at Ft Monmouth NJ, there was graffiti on a tall water tower that said FTA==F### The Army. It was the third time that some GI had climbed way up there and painted those three anti-military letters where the entire post could see them; so after two times of sending someone up to paint over them the Army gave up and left the graffiti there. I saw and heard the phrase FTA numerous times throughout my two year hitch in the Army.

Now let me tell (you) there
Mr. Didn’t Committed Suicide Christopher Estep, when it came time for us photo classmates to find out where we were going to be posted after we graduated, everyone of us were hoping that we did not get sent to Nam. I remember very clearly when guys in my barracks received orders to go to Nam, and they were all deeply upset and DID NOT WANT TO GO.

When I was on Okinawa, I only saw one guy, ONE GUY, volunteer for Nam. And that was because the lifers in my company, none of whom had been to or were going to Vietnam, had laid so much petty bullcrap on the guy that he very tersely, angrily said, “When I get over to Nam and I got a fully loaded M16 in my hands and some grenades hangin’ on my vest ain’t nobody gonna talk to me the way they have here.”

A few months later, I was going to volunteer for Nam also, and for very similar reasons as that guy had. But three other guys who had just returned from Vietnam talked me out of it.

That was quite a shock to me. I had always figured that combat vets would have said, “Hey yeah man I did my time now you go do yours.”

Here is the link to that entire incident written out.
I Applied for A Transfer Out of the 30th Arty Bgde

We American GIs could not safely and comfortably go almost anywhere in the USA with our uniforms on. Most young women would not go out on a date with a guy in uniform or even in the military. I hitchhiked a lot back then and though prior to 1965 my father and uncles had taught me that it was a sure thing to get a ride if you were wearing a military uniform, but sometime between 1965 and 1969 that all changed. I never hitchhiked in uniform while in the Army, and all my Army buddies and my family agreed that it was the best way to do it.

Ask any Nam vet about this (following) true historical fact—the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion all did not want Nam vets or any of us Vietnam Era vets in their organizations.

Since entering the US military in 1969, I have never, ever heard anyone say or have read where anyone else has written that most of America and her troops all supported the War in Vietnam and also us troops who were in the service at the time. These days, over and over again there are news articles, Internet postings, and face-to-face conversations by and/or about Vietnam Era vets like myself who make every effort we can to show support to today’s troops. We will not allow another generation of America’s fighting forces to be disrespected and mistreated as we were.

I never disrespected Nam vets before or after my time in the Army, and here is a link to my story about one who I treated like he was supposed to be.
http://www.magic-city-news.com/D_R_Crews_84/Jungle_Dirt_45444544.shtml

You disrespect Nam era vets, offend us, and rudely revise our history by writing that these facts that I have written about here are all lies.

Read the comments to the entire series of recent Washington Post articles that are based on the terrible conditions that our wounded, active duty troops suffer at Walter Reed Hospital. There are plenty of everyday working people in America who support the troops and also military veterans but who are against this War in Iraq.

I don’t know any war protesters and demonstrators, but I seriously doubt that they are all unemployed. That is some far-fetched theory though; I don’t totally buy it. But I do believe that a very certain, minute number of regular protesters and demonstrators are aggravating lunatics. And the same goes for a few war hawks too.

I was and still am willing to defend their rights to be on either side of the fence when it comes to war. Full American style freedom requires that a balance of ideals remain in perpetual action.

I’d like to pound the living daylights out of a tiny number of the super ignoramus aggravating lunatics who are on each side of the fence though, some go too far in their words and actions, but I can’t afford a lawyer.

But I’m not thinking about physically punishing you with a pounding though, Mr. Didn’t Commit Suicide Christopher Estep. So far I have only read enough of your blog to believe you to be a super aggravating ignoramus, but not a lunatic. I shall go back later and read more of what you write.

Your remarks about the complete worthlessness of all war protesters and demonstrators and Hippies smack of pure Fascist and Communist type ideals. “Worthlessness” be cries a “final solution” of total elimination.

Now it is fair that I ask you this: Why is it that I see nothing on your blog about your military service to our country, or a legit reason why you have never served or are not serving now?

If you can’t serve for a very real reason, then you can still go over to the war zone as a civilian and work any number of jobs there in support of the war and make a lot of money doing it.

So why don’t you go on over and dive head first into what you call “the good fight”?

I recognize all Taliban as our mortal enemies. They want to kill me and you and all Americans. They treat other people intolerably horrible, especially women and children. They despise freedom and the entire free world. I despise their very existence on this earth. They were pushing for a fight so our country had little choice but to go to Afghanistan and take the fight to them. I recognize the fact that we have no other option but to wipe them off the face of the earth. They started it, not us.

Saddam Hussein deserved to die, because he was a torturing, murdering sociopath. So did his two psychopath sons need killing also—what were their names? Oobiedoobie and Doggydoodoo? But we have done ourselves no good so far by knocking them out of power?

I am against the War in Iraq. But we must not cut off any congressional funding to the War in Iraq, because the troops over there must either be fully supported or withdrawn.

We did help the Iraqis out of a terrible situation by knocking the Hussein regime out of power, but the entire citizenry of Iraq are all suffering from more hatred and anger amongst themselves against each other than anyone else can ever remedy.

I support our troops, all coalition forces, their attacks on Taliban forces and the annihilation of any socially deranged, thoroughly unchangeable, hostile enemies of ours.

I am not a hawk; I am not a dove.

I am a lifelong, willing defender of freedom and my country.

Live free or die fighting for freedom.

I have no idea what you are trying to do on your blog or whom you are trying to bamboozle by writing that propaganda, but it is the very worst and most dangerous revision of Vietnam Era history that I have ever encountered.
------End of my comment.------

In order for me to get all of that comment on Mr. Estep’s blog I had to put it on four entries. Mr. Estep did not allow all of my comment to stay on his blog. He left the first part on, but then I did not expect him to leave any of it on there.

Then he left this comment:

Well, Mr. Like To See Myself Type, there's a reason that there are post size limits.Get over yourself, Private Joker. I don't owe you jack, and I certainly don't intend to give you a platform to ramble on and on like a self-pitying mental patient. You can do that elsewhere. Had you been able to elucidate your thoughts in something less than 4 posts, I may have given you the time of day. Instead you've shown yourself to be a windbag.Christopher Estep Homepage 03.20.07 - 4:21 pm


I am not going to leave any more comments on Mr. Estep’s blog. If I were it would be to ask him why the hell did he put that bullshit out there on the World Wide Web on a blog that does allow comments if he didn't want to have opposing views posted on it; and I'd tell him that most any Vietnam Era Veteran and writer who reads his blog posting is not going to let him get away with spreading those lousy lies. I am going to leave my further comments on this subject here on my blog where they will be published in full. This is far too serious of a subject for me to have it handled within the limits of his blog’s comment feature. I had no choice but to leave a long comment. That is due to the fact that if I hadn't fully explained and qualified myself in addressing this issue, then I would never be able to receive any credibility as a spokesperson on the isssue from anyone else. It would have done no good for me to simply have left a comment saying that I disagree with what is written in the blog posting.

The big questions I have here are:

1) Who has Mr. Estep convinced that his lies are the truth?

2) In the future will he be convincing more people that he is telling the truth here?

3) Is there a larger group of other individuals who are spreading these lies also?

This demented bullshit of Mr. Estep’s reminds me of the sick sum’beeches who declare that the murders of millions in World War Two concentration camps never happened.

What I fear the most here is that these ideas of Mr. Estep’s are either something that many people already believe in or that this will be what is taught to some younger people somewhere as the truth about the Vietnam Era. And then it may spread and grow in the far future till it is considered to be the truth.

Mr. Estep has declared that most Vietnam Era Vets and everyone else who has ever said that the USA did not support us troops and the war are liars. Because Mr. Estep’s words make us out to be liars, this is not good for any young decedents of us individuals who say that the Nam War and how America treated it’s military troops at the time was all screwed up. He is doing his best on his blog to tell any grandchildren of many Nam Vets that their Granddad or Grandmom is a liar.

What I would like to see is a full media investigation of Mr. Estep’s efforts to spread these lies and also to see if this is a much wider spread and growing phenomenon than just a lone liar with one blog posting about it. I want to see these falsehoods of Mr. Estsep's to be reported about in various media outlets.

I would also like to see some reactions be posted on Mr. Estep's blog, in the form of comments, from other Vietnam Era Veterans besides myself, from some experts in Vietnam War Era history, and from anyone else who knows that Mr. Estep is definitely lying. I would like to see other people's reactions to be written about on their blogs or other kinds of web sites.


If left to grow or die out on its own, Mr. Estep’s twisted revision of history may eventually become something which confuses many young people in the future, and it may also become something that can be used as part of a greater dissemination of some type of propaganda. It simply cannot go unchecked.




3 comments:

betmo said...

i support our troops and i linked to your post. i feel that the time for tolerance is gone- we are going to have to fight these people with the truth. no more allowing them their right to say what they want with impunity. they shredded our constitution- so my thought is- they don't have a right to first amendment freedoms.

thepoetryman said...

The man is a fool and gets all of his information from the following sources according to his blog;

Things I Read

Sister Toldjah
Rhymes With Right
The Hillary Project
pettifog
Kowabunga
Fox News Channel
National Review
Drudge Report
Power Line
The Right Side of YouTube
NewsMax: America's News Page
Ann Coulter
Rush Limbaugh
Sean Hannity
Glenn Beck
WSJ Opinion Journal
The Weekly Standard
The Washington Times
Stop Her Now: Homepage
The Mighty Righty
Hot Air


With a list like that the truth is hard to come by. He's a goner, yet nothing to worry over. Most people that read his blather know it's a bunch of idiocy.

Jim Degerstrom said...

I served 18 months of hardship duty in Africa and then 18 months of Nam duty having joined a year before you, Dave. I doubt that Chris even knows there was a draft at that time, and yet many of us volunteered.

Serve once overseas and you do get to go stateside, but when asked I requested another overseas tour, anywhere. Having grown up in a very small town in Maine, it would likely be my last chance to see the world.

Living as a young adult in the 1960's and experiencing what we did, it is difficult seeing the facts twisted by people fabricating history; what one imagines without any research cannot be substituted for truth.

I prefer to just forget that era mostly because so much of what you described is absolutely correct.

There was no support of the troops, and poor treatment was even more evident when we returned and tried to assimilate back into civilian society.

The protesters back then were not all unemployed or ignorant, and I got over my resentment of them and the draft dodgers based on what I saw.

Body counts were manipulated by keeping corpses in cold storage warehouses, and then releasing more or less depending on the real GI kill count for a given week.

The American mentality and lack of empathy places us in cultural situations that we do not understand. An African once told me "You are mistaken to think that we want blue jeans and democracy. Your country has existed for 200 years and our ways go back 1000's of years."

In Viet Nam, we did not become involved as of the 1960's. We were there since the late 1940's. What the leaders overlooked was the Vietnamese had been fighting for 200 years, and their strategy crossed generations, not weekly body count.

Iraq is no different. You cannot apply our cultural values to overcome foreign issues that go back a 1000 years, yet at times our leaders continue to overlook this fact.

It doesn't make them wrong. There are principles of decency that force us to engage the Husseins of this world.

As soldiers or civilians, we have a duty to support our leaders and especially our troops. As soldiers you sign up prepared to die for a cause in defense of American freedom. Being free is what makes the USA so great.

This freedom allows open protests. It empowers bloggers to freely write their thoughts. It does not include the freedom to deal loosely with the truth blowing hot air out of emotion without any basis in fact.

That's enough. You've reminded me of why my blog topic at Growin' Up in Maine is childhood stories from the 50's and 60's.

Jim

P.S. Congrats on installing the stat code.